IndyCar — July 14, 2010 12:13 — 17 Comments
And The Winner Is…….
So the die has been cast for the future of the IZOD IndyCar Series. Considering today’s economic landscape, the choice was one that offers diversity and cost efficiency.
Dallara is the base chassis/safety cell supplier. No surprise here. Over the last 7 years, Dallara has been the IRL’s supplier and say what you want, they have delivered.
But, the decision to welcome wings, aero and exterior appendages offers the opportunity for the cars to look different.
A $350,000 base price for a tub/safety cell and $385,000 tab for a complete car is a significant coast reduction. The assorted aero kits means a good deal of creativity will likely surface and that is something that has been missing lately.
I’m sure that reams will be written about the decision and that it will be a big discussion point for quite some time. That is a good thing. It creates a “buzz”. It also means there will be a lot of anticipation surrounding the aero packages that will be part of the 2012 racing season and beyond.
How will the new cars perform? Will close racing continue?
These are questions that will have to wait for answers.
But, for the very first time in the history of the Indy Racing League, this chassis selection involved all the parties involved in the sport including the ultimate customer….the race fan.
Then, there was the method used by the IZOD IndyCar Series first the formation of the ICONIC Committee and then, the actual announcement. It was as transparent as possible. It was a first class presentation that saw more than 7,500 run of the mill racing fans online watching the announcement! It included a classy presentation much different that previous announcements that often took place in the sterile environment of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway press conference room!
This presentation screamed “BIG” ! It was a great way to kick things off.
Well Done IRL!
Jack, you missed the most “entertaining” part of the announcement. That was the $150K rebate the first 28 teams based in Indiana will get from Dallara. Anybody want to volunteer to tell AJ Foyt that he has to pay more for his cars because he dares to live/work in Texas? I say the IRL should send Arie Luyendyk to knock on AJ’s door just for old times sake.
Bottom line: All five manufacturers said they needed an exclusive FULL chassis contract to make this profitable. Other than for Dallara, folks, this ain’t it. Even if somebody else wanted to come in to build aero kits, will they get an Indiana government subsidy for it too (another thing Jack “forgot” to mention from today’s presser). All the IRL has committed right now for 2012 is a Dallara chassis powered by a Honda engine. Isn’t that what we have now? Making the car cheaper and more local won’t put more people in the seats or add more eyeballs to the broadcasts. Also, going with the same chassis and engine suppliers won’t do much for popularity with Mr. Casual Fan either. Already IRL higher-ups are saying that they “hope” other manufacturers come in. Nothing has wasted more time throughout history than hope, although Internet porn is a quickly gaining second place in that race.
Sorry, but I expected to be underwhelmed by this presser and the IRL famously delivered on that.
Did I miss a press release that said that Honda and Dallara would definitely be the only two manufacturers in play in 2012, Mr. Joseph? It’s true that nobody else has stepped up yet (and actually Honda hasn’t yet, either), but uh, I don’t think we’ve reached the drop dead date for new engine manufacturers or aero kit manufacturers to come on board.
Making the cars cheaper and more local won’t in and of itself bring in big crowds, but if those two factors encourage more teams (say, if sports car or USAC or Indy Lights teams decided to step up) to come into the sport, or if cheaper cars means that teams don’t have to take Milka Duno’s money and can instead hire the best (and possibly American!) driver to put into the seat, then isn’t that a good thing?
There are two ways to look at this: glass half empty (only Dallara and Honda are official!) or glass half full (the specs are open enough that there’s a very good chance that other firms will come on board). I’ll take the latter. Life’s too short to walk around hanging your head about the fact that things aren’t absolutely perfect. I think that today’s announcement was very encouraging.
TS, yes, you indeed missed something. Press conferences this allegedly important usually contain CONFIRMED announcements, not hopeful possibilities. The IRL announced today that Dallara is building the common tubs and that they will be offering an aero kit. Where were the reps from any other company announcing their aero kit today? Saying that you WANT other entities to make the aero kits isn’t a CONFIRMATION that it is happening. Having Tony Purnell and Brian Barnhart on stage throwing out a bunch of possible aero kit manufacturer names IS NOT a confirmation that all, or any, will participate in an aero kit program. So far, Dallara is the only supplier of tubs and the only confirmed supplier of aero kits.
As for the engine, yes, the IRL announced a spec to be reached instead of a single supplier. However, it is also true that ONLY HONDA has signed up to be an engine supplier for the IICS in 2012 AT THIS POINT. Once again, the IRL WANTS other builders and they have until October 2 to officially list their intention to do so. THAT’S NOT AN OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION OF MULTIPLE BUILDERS. So far, Honda is the only confirmed engine supplier for 2012.
As I made my original post on July 14, 2010 at 2:53 PM EDT, the ONLY thing the IRL has for 2012 is a Dallara car powered by a Honda engine. Approximately six hours later, that has not changed. That is the truth even if you don’t want to accept it. COULD it change? Anything is possible. However, today’s announcement contained more hope than substance on the idea of multiple chassis and engine builders. IMHO, the announcement that the IICS is moving from a Dallara/Honda to a Dallara/Honda is not exactly earth moving or game changing. A cheaper chassis will help. However, new teams will still require an outlay of over $1 million (assuming two chassis/aero kits and an engine lease) to realistically enter the series. It may be lower than now, but it’s still too high for most. How many teams now could field an $1 million outlay for new equipment right now. Things may very well improve by the end of the 2011 season. However, basing your future on the prospect that it will improve enough for your smaller teams to justify even this smaller outlay is risky.
Man, you gave people six whole hours to confirm that they’re coming to play in 2012? How patient of you.
They had to announce something in order to officially throw the doors open to manufacturers, both engine and aero. The status quo holding pattern that we’ve had since mid-2008 (and, yes, I and many other people have been waiting since then for movement on the next-gen car) looks like indecision, and nobody is going to sign up when the whole thing is up in the air. We now have an official concept for 2012, even if the technical specs are either not 100% worked out or if they just weren’t made public yesterday. Now, they can get official “thumbs up” or “thumbs down” from manufacturers because those manufacturers now have official word of what we’re dealing with.
Look, I’m just going off of the notion that we only had a few plausible options going into yesterday’s announcement: 1) Spec series, using any of the five proposed chassis manufacturers; 2) Open competition between two or more manufacturers, with a likely escalation in costs; 3) a hybrid compromise of 1) and 2), where one supplier produces 80% of the car and the other 20% is open for development by anybody who is interested. Oh, or #4, where we re-use the same old 2003 cars for another 3-4 years. I don’t like #1 or #4 at all, and from what I’ve gathered at the ICONIC fan forum at Indy and on blogs for the last year, nobody else does either. #2 could have priced out half the grid. #3 is not ideal, but given the conditions that we’re currently in, I think it’s the best that we could have hoped for yesterday. As for other manufacturers, engine and aero, I’m willing to be patient on that. I just don’t see the point to having a heart attack about the fact that we could wind up with 33 Dallara/Hondas on the grid in 2012 just yet. I can think of far worse things.
TS, I’m not having a heart attack about 2012, it’s a truth attack. Are you honestly so gullible to believe that the ICONIC vote was held either yesterday morning or at the beginning of yesterday’s presentation? If so, the IRL put together their holographic presentation and Dallara put together their two pieced offering within an unbelievably short period of time. The truth is that the decision to use Dallara had to have been made well before the “vote” was shown on the presentation for everything on their end to be so completely presented. Also, since none of the other companies involved or hopefully mentioned had anything to present in the form of an aero kit, it smacks of favoritism toward Dallara by the IRL. Randy Bernard said that ICONIC planned to vote Wednesday morning on the winner. If it isn’t a lie, then, at least, Bernard obviously didn’t give a complete truth.
In addition, look at Cavin’s blog today (Sorry to send people elsewhere, Jack). There is already a reasonable, logistical question about whether or not Dallara will be able to build a manufacturing facility AND a minimum of 60 tubs/aero kits in Speedway, IN within 18 months assuming a January 2012 shipping date to the teams. Yesterday’s presser said that all of the tubs would be built in Speedway with Indiana government money helping to fund it. The truth may very likely end up being that the expected 12 tubs built annually after the original 2012 allotment will be built in Speedway with the majority of tubs on the track (the original 60+) will actually still come from Italy. For that matter, does a facility thousands of miles away from Dallara’s home base just to build 12 tubs and an unknown amount of aero kits really sound profitable long term? Not to me it doesn’t.
Thinking outside of the box is one thing. Actually getting that plan done is something completely different. Even Cavin now agrees with me that there was more hope of what COULD happen than actually what currently IS happening in yesterday’s presser. How many half truths eventually “changed” by reality does it take to make a full lie? Something tells me we’ll find out before the first green flag of 2012 waves.
I…wait, what? So, we’re gonna completely switch arguments, then?
Fine, I’ll grant you that building a new facility in Speedway is going to make getting the first batch of tubs “built in Indiana” impossible (well, unless they decide to do a one year lease on the old Allison / Riley & Scott building on the west side of Main), but again…I don’t know. I’m not all that bothered by where the tubs come from.
Outside of that part of the argument, I really don’t know what to tell you. I just know the following: Swift was insisting on sole supply. Lola was insisting on sole supply. BAT was insisting on sole supply. Delta Wing nearly caused the internets to melt down. Dallara, apparently, was the only company that would allow modifications to its chassis and wouldn’t cause a reaction in babies similar to what happens when my daughter drinks too much apple juice when people clamped eyes on it. I don’t know, maybe Dallara was the only one given that modification option, and ICONIC didn’t ask it of the other four because they paid of the entire ICONIC panel in veal scallopini. I just…I don’t have the time or energy to go looking for skeletons in Brian Barnhart’s closet or to go trying to sniff out conspiracy theories on why we wound up with what we got. the bottom line is that we (finally!) have new cars coming in 2012, and there’s a possibility that we’ll see cars of varying appearances with varying engines inthe back when they arrive. I like that stuff. I’m willing to wait to see what happens.
Everyone is entitled to an oppinion and the guestapo style of Indy racing fan club is hurting the league, not helping it.
There are many racing styles, and many leadership styles as well. Randy Bernard is a class act and he is doing his job, presenting consensus among a group of bullish fans is not an easy task. Give him some credit for sharing the boardroom with the public because he certainly was not required to.
One of the reasons that this league has a shortage of fans is because there are fanatics who cut off and cut short anyone elses oppinion. In America we are allowed to have favorite teams, favorite drivers and favorite memories.
I have to say thar Dallara has proven it’s safety standard because Mike Conway is still alive!
Izod has done a fantastic job advertising a new attitude that is NOT “fast and furious” outside of the track. I love the new Izod Island commercial with the sailing and the girls riding horses with Izod clothes. EXTREME SPORTS LOVE THIS! It is 150% better already!
There is a chance that Universities will get involved, there may be grants available for competitions like First Robotics. The NASA Shuttle program is ending in Central FLorida and Science and Research and Development is the focus. There may be MANY opportunities for development.
The rudeness should stop on the blogs. “SG” If you are ever going to be on a PTA or even a chaperone for a kindergarden class you will have to be more flexible and learn that everyone is entitled to their oppinnion. Chidren learn the art of “give and take” on the playground, starting in Kindergarten.
FYI, I am more than just an ” Angry Mom,”, I have been watching this series for along time. We used to have the Indy 500 on the Wide World of Sports (when there were only 3 TV stations-before cable.)
Watching these guys trying to pull off a succesful reorganization is fascinating and just give it a chance. I am waiting for the day that an American Auto company will be included. (Since I am not a huge Honda fan.) There are very smart kids with engineering minds just waiting to be included. The Boy Scout car may surprise you someday soon.
New cars…
The Indycar still look like go-karts NOT like Formula-one Open Wheel race cars.
Cheap and cheaper isn’t going to attract Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Peugeout; but you just might find some NEW American engineering initiative from the open-ended competition. A Bill Gates from CAl-Poly or an Eagle Scout with big ideas.
The “veal scollopini” thing was funny but still very suspicious. A.J. has developed a new Chardonay for those who don’t like “red.” I’m all in for Chardonay!
I’m sorry, what? Could you please quote back to me the part of what I wrote up there where I was rude, or where I told Mr. Joseph that he wasn’t entitled to his own opinion, or where I belittled anything he had to say? I did take him to task for expecting responses from alternate aero companies in the first six hours after the new car had been announced, but I thought that was a particularly presumptious thing to expect. In my last post, I basically said that we’d have to agree to disagree (you know, the part where I said “I don’t know what to tell you”), which I don’t feel is a terribly gestapo-y thing to say. Frankly, I thought that Mr. Joseph and I were having a banter-y little debate there.
Look, I try to deal with people with as much equanimity as possible. I do get a little huffy when people don’t show me the same respect as I try to show them. Things that I generally don’t appreciate are people who habitually hijack blog comment threads so that they can bang on about one of their pet topics and/or tell people that they’re idiots for talking about what they were talking about instead of said pet topic (something Mr. Bernstein and several other people have done here and many other places, in my opinion), people who make slanderous comments toward others, be it fellow commenters or individual people, teams, companies or sponsors within the IndyCar community (I’ll let you decide who I’m talking about there), and people who refuse to allow any conversation of any kind to take place without mucking up the waters with “everything sucks! This sport is ruined! I can’t wait for IndyCar to fail and go away forever!” type of comments. I feel like all of those approaches are disrespectful to me and to everybody who is trying to discuss the issues in the IndyCar series, and so after a few repeat offenses, I tend to get a little lippy back. That’s about where you and I stand.
I feel like this is the part where I need to apologize profusely to Mr. Arute for carrying this exchange out in his corner of the internet. I truly do appreciate your perspective as an active participant in most IndyCar weekends and, of course, your longtime position within the sport, and I hope you keep the blogging thing up (even if Roy Hobbson probably sends you weekly e-mails that lean in the opposite direction). In the meantime, I hope that the debate here can return to its previously scheduled topic of the new IndyCar and that Mr. Arute doesn’t see fit to using his bag of marbles and bowling ball on me for allowing things to go so far off the rails. Sorry again, sir.
TS, you can look at the glass as half full as much as you want. I say IRL fans already deserve a completely full glass for what they’ve had to put up with. I changed nothing about my post other than to give more evidence why it think it was more fantasy than reality. You can sit around and hope that those “pie in the sky” company names Purnell and Barnhart threw out come into the IICS by 2012. Sorry, but I’ve got better things to do than spend every day of the next 18 months waiting and hoping at the top of the stairs like it’s Christmas Eve for ICONIC to finally look good. BTW, since you suggested that I missed something, you must have missed posting the links to those official press releases from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Ford, GM and Ferrari telling the world that they plan to take up the challenge lobbed their way on Wednesday by the IRL. All it would take is a simple free (as in no cost whatsoever) official e-release to pull that off by any of them. So far, all I hear is crickets chirping amidst IRL fanboys cheering. I guess we’ll truly have to wait until 2012 to see if Emperor Bernard’s new clothes were spectacular or invisible on Wednesday. Despite that, some of us, now that the smoke and holograms have cleared, already know what we saw on Wednesday. Others, apparently not so much.
Try this logic:
I am a”Red Sox” fan, being from Boston,
My Husband is “Yankees: fan being from New York,
I like the girls team. including Mika Dunno
I don’t like male chauvenists who think woman can’t compete-
or that they should “stay home”
OR any team that thinks they are entitled.
William Power is my favorite driver because he has talent and he is from Tawoomba,
My Neighbor was Jim Rathman Jr. who is a complete Gentleman
(And I had his grand daughter’s in my Sunday School class for a few years.)
Mr. Bernstein has been bullied off the blogs because of one sided oppinions,
Many people in America are discouraged and they watch sports on T.V. for a miriad of personal reasons-
I am entitled to comment, watch and have earned this proveledge because I pay 2 sets of property taxes in Florida where Indycar races and practices frequently.
My son had his 10th Birthday at Andretti’s raceway in Palm Bay FL (Unfortunately IMO)
Progress requires Change and although some may say, “keep the change” just say
“Please and Thank You”…not just to Jack Arute and your old boys club would be a good beginning.
Mr. Bernard is trying to get a new fan base and from what I can see, it is no wonder why.
So say “sorry” to Mr. Bernstein AND stop being a bully on the playground.
When in Somoma I will be drinking Chardonay…How is that for “off topic.”
Bag of Marbles and a Bowling Bag is funny.
People have different reasons why they watch any series.
Vulgarity and a course tone does not look good while wearing Izod Polos….my son wears his to church on Sunday.
Why, thanks, I will continue to look at the glass as half full, and at least at the angle that I’m looking at it, the water level might be getting a little higher. I didn’t expect a step change from half full to completely full overnight. Anybody who did was being a little overoptimistic.
Look, all I meant is that I don’t think you can expect an announcement to be made at noon on a Wednesday and then have an avalanche of press releases from interested aero companies (or car companies or aerospace companies or race car manufacturers or composite shops or universities with Formula SAE or Sunrace teams) within 48 hours. It isn’t as simple as putting out (as you say) a free press release, because if you don’t follow through on that press release, you’ll wind up with a reputation for promising big and delivering nothing (insert your joke about the ICONIC panel right here). Boards of directors have to be convened. Budgets, either marketing or R&D or both, have to be analyzed. Technical personnel and facilities have to be lined up. And given the fact that we’re in the midst of summer vacation times (my office has been running short staffed for weeks now), I don’t think it’s crazy to say that it might take a couple months before companies start all of this rolling in earnest. All of this said (and I fully expect you to poo-poo this right out of hand), to my surprise, we’ve already gotten a sniff of interest, far sooner than I could have imagined:
http://www.racer.com/lotus-hints-at-increased-irl-role/article/174626/
Is that confirmation that Lotus will come on board? Hardly. But, I do think it’s an indication that it isn’t superduper crazy “pie in the sky” that we might get one or two firms other than Dallara interested in doing aero kits.
Again, am I going to, as you say, spend every single day of the next 18 months waiting for press releases to come rolling in? No. I’m going to carry on my life, have a little patience, and also have a little optimism that we’re in the best position that Wednesday’s announcement could possibly have put us in (and if you can’t be optimistic, then what’s the point of getting out of bed every day?). As far as being an “IRL fanboy”…well, if that means that I only periodically criticise something that happens in the IndyCar series instead of spending 100% of my time screaming about how everything is going to hell in a handbasket…guilty as charged.
Looking forward to seeing Graham Rahal in the Quick Trim car. Like Kim Kardashian but her sisters, not so much. I have issues with the diet product that isn’t safe without a Dr’s guidance but then again that is business in America. Just am glad that Hugh Hefner stays home.
Paul Tracy will also be a great to see again.
Marshall Pruett on Speed TV seemed a little optimistic,
Maybe if Indycar had some cable channel time or a FOX report now and then, people would tune in..
WHo said Indycar was going to hell in a handbasket? Some people want EU Formula-0ne style Open Wheel Racing and that just isn’t happening right now and it may never happen.
I don’t remember saying that “everything is going to hell in a handbasket” like TS claimed that I did. Thanks for proving that you need to make up junk in a failed attempt to make yourself look better. It’s no better or truthful than the junk the IRL pushed on Wednesday. Pardon me if I don’t like being lied to by the IRL or its admitted fanboys.
FWIW, autoracing1.com is now reporting from Toronto this weekend that “the consensus in the paddock by the majority of the team owners is that IndyCar will remain a Dallara-Honda spec series (which is what Brian Barnhart wanted all along anyway) because the value is not there for another engine manufacturer to develop an all-new engine for IndyCar to compete head-to-head with Honda.” One owner is even anonymously quoted as saying “I have spoken to all the manufacturers and not a single one is interested.”. Even the IRL owners (aka the people who actually will pay for 2012) don’t believe the multiple chassis/engine scenario. Yet, admitted fanboy TS wants us to believe the IRL talking points that multiple engine manufacturers will be there in 2012. Whatever. Call me crazy, but I happen to think the owners have a slightly better idea about what it takes to put all of this together for 2012 than TS does.
Boy, I could ask you for links to some of that stuff, because it sounds like interesting reading, but I’m sure I’ll just have to use The Google my own self.
I didn’t either claim that you were saying that everything was going to hell in a handbasket. I’m just tired of the perception by a certain faction of the IndyCar “fanbase” (though it’s hard to tell who’s really a fan, because this faction seems to want to see failure on such a level that the word “schaudenfreude” doesn’t seem remotely strong enough) that anybody who doesn’t spend literally all of their time saying that everything is going to hell in a handbasket and slamming every single thing that IndyCar does is automatically a “Kool-Aid guzzling fanboy” (which is what I apparently am). God forbid that I actually think that there is some good stuff going on among some of the things that aren’t (and I’ve blogged about some of the latter as well).
It’s literally this simple: I’m optimistic. You’re not. Fine. We’ll call it done right about there.
If “Google your own self” is what you do best then do it. Obssesed fans with narrow viewpoints. Keep your sarcasm to yourself, especially on the playgroung.
“Schaudefreude”..is that like neo-nazi hysteria? Really great example for the new breed of Indycar fan. Are you guys on the alternate blogs all trying out for a real job on the circuit? If so, you are going to need to learn some common- courtesy. “Im optimistic -your not” sounds like another lesson for kindergueten.
Take a play from William Power and paint with all the colours of the wind
MARS,
So, you’re going to step into a discussion to preach about respectful differences in opinion, a discussion where one guy is basically calling the other a naive rube and the other has said about three times now “we’ll have to agree to disagree”, and you’re going to beat up on the “agree to disagree” guy? OK…did you bother to read and/or internalize a single word that I wrote?
VENUS: All I hear is crickets.